As inherently problematic buying “original” props and wardrobe on eBay may be, the risks are that much higher if the seller listing the item is a “drop-off” company. Such offerings introduce additional issues that collectors should be aware of and consider.
The primary concerns with marrying this business model with the sale of original props is that these companies have no expertise in the field, they are third-party/non-owners, they frequently merely repeat the claims of the consignor, the consignor is often not identified, in many cases the unknown consignor doubles as the authenticator, shill bidding can be more difficult to identify, etc. This editorial intends to raise awareness of these issues by pointing to real examples showcasing some of these concerns.
Given that most of these companies include “authenticity disclaimers” in their listings – a violation of eBay policy – they should really be prevented from listing original props and wardrobe unless they have some expertise in the field to verify the authenticity of what they are selling.
What is an eBay “Drop-Off” Store/Business?
eBay drop-off stores are businesses that invite people to bring in select items on a consignment basis, which the company then lists on eBay on behalf of the owner. Typically the consignor pays eBay fees as well as the consignment fee for listing the item and working with the buyer. Some of these businesses have a limited scope of item types and values; many have no specialty. A key part of the business model is that the drop-off business itself does not own the item. General examples of drop-off businesses include iSold It, AuctionDrop, and others (see list at AuctionBytes.com).
I do occasionally see drop-off businesses selling props and wardrobe on eBay characterized as original and authentic, used in film and television. As noted, in my opinion this is inherently problematic and compounds the challenges hobbyists face when considering purchasing props and wardrobe on eBay in general.
Taking a look at specific examples will underline some of the concerns I have identified.
Consignor/Authenticator, “Third-Party”, Authenticity Disclaimers
A few companies discussed at length on the OPB are those drop-off companies that were selling large quantities of “original” props and celebrity memorabilia consigned and authenticated by Global Antiques (see Global Antiques articles). As discussed in great detail in those prior articles, the drop-off sellers Auction Depot LA and Auction Shop USA were selling these items as authentic, but would not allow collectors to communicate with the consignor, who also authenticated the pieces (many of which were proven to be fraudulant). These companies also employed disclaimers about merely being a third-party, and not the owner of the pieces that they were selling (which is in direct violation of eBay “Authenticity Disclaimers” policy). Given the extensive prior coverage, I think the issues involved are very clear.
Problematic Properties, Non-Experts, “As Is”
Another series of past articles identifying problematic props from a specific property are those reviewing various offerings on eBay for props attributed to the Gremlins films (see Gremlins articles). As noted in the prior articles, there has been a number of questionable pieces offered for sale accompanied by considerable coincidences.
One drop-off seller recently offered a piece attributed to this film. Below is an archive of the auction listing by auctions1800, a drop-off store in Rhode Island, with yet another Gremlins head:
SCREENUSED movie prop original “GREMLIN HEAD” – SEE! (eBay Item #370081019101)
From the marketing description:
” g r e m l i n h e a d ”
S C R E E N U S E D in the movie G r e m l i n sUp for auction and bidding is for a SCREENUSED movie prop original ” GREMLIN HEAD ” in the movie Gremlins. This Gremlin Head prop was most like used or screenused in the theater scene part during the production of the film. This movie/film prop does not come with a Certificate of Authenticity, and will be sold as is . . . Any questions or need more information, please do email us before bidding. GOOD LUCK!
Don’t miss this opportunity to obtain an authentic screenused movie memorabilia . . . .
E n j o y t h i s p i e c e o f m o v i e m e m o r a b i l i a !
PLEASE SEE THE PHOTOS FOR A MORE DETAILED DESCRIPTION
NOTE : We’re not experts about this kind of items, we just give the GENERAL DESCRIPTION about the auction items given to us by the owner….. we also try to research this items on the net, for additional information and description. So please…. if you do have question with regards to the said auction listing, please do email us before bidding. G O O D L U C K !
On the positive, this company openly admits that they are not experts and rely on information provided by the seller – but that honesty underlines the inherent problems with these types of companies offering such pieces for sale. As is often the case, though prominently marketed in the title as “SCREENUSED” and “original”, none of this is proven in the listing and it is sold “as is”.
Shielded Sources, Shill Bidding?
Another recent example is with the eBay seller auctiondoctors:
…experts who sell items in ALL eBay categories for private individuals and businesses.
Going back to earlier in the year, they began selling props described as:
FROM THE PERSONAL COLLECTION OF A LIFELONG MOVIE PROP COLLECTOR WHO IS SELLING OFF PORTIONS OF HIS COLLECTION EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH AUCTION DOCTORS, INC.
Many of these items were identified by myself and other collectors as from the collection of Jerry Wallace.
In order to verify this, I did contact Auction Doctors via eBay’s “Ask Seller a Question” feature, and had asked about the consignor of these pieces that they were offering for sale on eBay from the “LIFELONG MOVIE PROP COLLECTOR” (all correspondence on 02/21/08):
Dear auctiondoctors,
Hello,
Can you tell me the name of the collector that this comes from? Do you have any letters from the costume designer?
Thanks,
Jason
Dear jdebord,
I have a letter from Norma’s assistant (named Eric) but it is not signed and not on letter-head, so I did not mention it. I am not allowed to release the name of my client.
Thanks,
Todd
Hi Todd,
Were any of these pieces owned by Jerry Wallace?
Thanks again,
Jason
No response.
While auction houses and prop dealers taking items on consignment will also withhold owner/consignor information from prospective buyers upon request, these are companies that sell props exclusively as a profession. Compared with a company that sells a wide variety of products without such specialty and experience is an entirely different proposition.
Mr. Wallace openly admitted (though he used third person references for that section of his remarks – i.e. “the person”) to pairing an authentic studio COA with a replica Ghostbusters Proton Pack on the Motion Picture Prop Company discussion forum (see “Propstore, Screenused, Phil S. Jerry W. and the famous PROTON PACK”) shortly after the owner, Lee Malone, banned me:
It reads, in part:
2. The Proton Pack + the twerp’s veiled and not so veiled accusations.
The Proton Pack ws given to the consignor (not me) as a gift.
The consignor said he just wanted to give it to his wife because she loved the movie so much.
The consignor was one of the most knowledgeable collectors of props and costumes in this country. He’s been at it for about 30 years. I’ve been collection this stuff for 3 or 4 years.
The consignor knew there existed a COA that didn’t go with the pack….and asked for that too. Since the person who gave him this (supposed $25K) gift had no intention of selling it, and believe that the consignor only wanted it for his wife….the COA was given to him also. About a week or two later, it was consigned to Profiles.
When Profiles found out it wasn’t correct, the consignor was read the riot act and severly limited in the business the Auction would do with him. Of course he blamed the person he received the (supposed $25K) gift from. lol.
There are recordings of the consignor admitting that consigning this item was his fault and that he misunderstood, etc. etc. etc.
Convenient misunderstanding when YOUR pockets can be lined with 25K for doing nothing…..wouldn’t you say?
Now it’s time for the twerp to start tearing apart this post word for word. I don’t mind, it’s either this…..or I go and buy more props and cars.
Hey, jason, every moment I spend writing about you……is money which stays in my pocket…..and no, you can’t have any. lol. Thanks. j
The replica Ghostbusters Proton Pack was consigned to Profiles in History with the authentic studio COA – a COA that came with an original Proton Pack that Mr. Wallace purchased years before and later sold. More details can be found in the article, Prop Watchlist: Ghostbusters Proton Pack. Mr. Wallace’s account quoted above does not agree with what I have heard from other parties.
In monitoring some of these Auction Doctor listings, one interesting development was an item attributed to this “Collection” that was bid on by Mr. Wallace with his 1cunninglinguist eBay account:
BRAVEHEART 1995 MOVIE PROP PICK AX/AXE HEAD MEL GIBSON (eBay Item #2505233225396)
eBay policy on shill bidding (LINK):
Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill bidding is prohibited on eBay.
Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller-even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options-such as Buy It Now-which do not involve bidding.
eBay strongly encourages sellers with employees to ensure that their employees are aware of this policy and the possible consequences of violation.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
- Listing cancellation
- Limits on account privileges
- Account suspension
- Forfeit of eBay fees on canceled listings
- Loss of PowerSeller status
- Referral to Law Enforcement
Spend a few minutes taking eBay’s tutorial on shill bidding.
If you believe that another member is artificially raising the price or desirability of an item by shill bidding please report it to eBay. Please be sure to provide the user IDs and the item numbers in question.
Jerry Wallace on shill bidding (Movie Prop Forum, see “dcfoundation2004 ? ?, ebay user legit?“, 02/01/05 – 02/02/05):
Hi, Since I was in the antique biz for many years, I know most of the major players in art and antiques and I can tell you that shill bidding is the most minor offense. People have been shill bidding at auction since the begining of auctions. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that you can have a friend, relative, partner, neighbor, etc. raise the price of an item you’re selling. Of course you take a chance on losing a real buyer but that’s the chance you take. The most you lose is commisions because the bulk of the money, or item comes back to you. So, if you think you found some shill bidding, better be concerned about the ones you haven’t caught. My first purchase on ebay was an item for $8500. Later a friend pointed out how all the underbidders had a 0 or 1 or 2 feedback. The auction biz is more complicated then brain surgery. Tell me if you think this is unethical. I was a world expert in one field of antiques, so when I was sitting in an auction bidding on a rare item, I would ask a friend of mine to bid it for me to say……25K. I would bid in the room and maybe stop at 10K. Like I said, I know the players and several people watch to see how high I go. When they see me stop at 10, the bidding tapers off quickly and stops. My friend buys the item for 11 or 12. Was I doing something wrong? I still bought and paid for the item, I just wasn’t sharing my years of expertise with the peanut gallery. Like I said, shill bidding is the rubber band gun of the auction expert’s arsenal. j
Do you think shill bidding is allowed at Sotheby’s or Christie’s? Shill bidding is not allowed anywhere……neither is speeding. The point is, how can you tell shill bids? Can I not buy from someone I know on Ebay..or visa versa? You would have to go inside a person’s mind to know his intention. Sometimes people bid on your items just to screw you out of a real sale. Remember “BACK TO SCHOOL”? When the professor was teaching his students how things work in business? Remember when Rodney kept interrupting to tell him how the “real” world works? I spent 5 years in a country where the average wage is $6/month……..a doctor makes $13/month. You want to know about scams…..travel to places where people scam 18 hours a day just to put food on the table. I don’t consider it much of a scam when rich sellers sell to rich buyers. I hope none of us is ever in a position which requires scamming for survival because, in the words of the Captain of the Titanic…………”We ain’t gonna make it!”
I don’t really expect much from others. You qoute me as saying that “shill bidding is acceptable”. That’s a misquote. I insinuated it was a common occurance and my guess is that every 13 year old selling his junk on Ebay has already figured that one out. You say the prop community is “like minded”…..sounds a bit communist…..the board constantly has members disagreeing. You want to know if I shill bid….I NEVER BID UNLESS I WANT TO BUY THE ITEM. How about you? You make reference to me having something to hide. You seem to have incredibly high morals and standards. I find most people can’t achieve that kind of morality when it comes to money. Are you sure you you’re not a latent shiller? Why can’t we all just get along. RK
Concluding Thoughts
I think the issues outlined above and the examples provided demonstrate that, if anything, collectors should exercise due diligence in contemplating a transaction with a “drop-off” seller offering original props or wardrobe on eBay, given the inherent complications due to the authenticity factor of the pieces offered and the third-party, non-expert status of most of these businesses, as well as other considerations as noted.
Jason De Bord